Thread: Can you believe this ?!

Originally Posted by Dave

Sam, please think before starting a thread entitled "Holocaust didn't happen". This gives a deeply wrong impression to surfers who find this site, which of course is apolitical. I for one would not click on such a link or stick around for very long if I saw this kind of thing.
Thanks.

Ok I understand can we change it to " Can you believe this?" so atleast people will open it and give their input?

Originally Posted by trixxie

I think people who say it never happen want to actually believe that it really didn't happen. I don't understand why so many people are so full of hate for anyone.

I think that is some of it Trixie I also think that some believe it happened and can't face up to how they feel about it.

I went to college with some exchange students from Bavaria and Germany and while they were growing up, this history of the holocaust was swept under the carpet partly to have some sense of patriotic pride rather than shame for their youth.

A little Thing i put together
The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστον (holókauston): holos, "completely" and kaustos, "burnt"), also known as Ha-Shoah (Hebrew: השואה), Churben (Yiddish: חורבן), is the term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the National Socialist regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler.[2]

Other groups were persecuted and killed by the regime, including the Roma, Soviets (particularly prisoners of war); ethnic Poles; other Slavic people; the physically or mentally disabled; gay men; religious dissidents such as Jehovah's witnesses, and political dissidents.[3][4] Many scholars do not include these groups in the definition of the Holocaust, defining it as the genocide of the Jews,[5] or what the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question." Taking into account all the victims of Nazi persecution, the death toll rises considerably: estimates generally place the total number of victims at nine to 11 million.[6]

The persecution and genocide were accomplished in stages. Legislation to remove the Jews from civil society was enacted years before the outbreak of World War II. Concentration camps were established in which inmates were used as slave labour until they died of exhaustion or disease. Where the Third Reich conquered new territory in eastern Europe, specialized units called Einsatzgruppen murdered Jews and political opponents in mass shootings. Jews and Roma were crammed into ghettos before being transported hundreds of miles by freight train to extermination camps where, if they survived the journey, the majority of them were killed in gas chambers. Every arm of Germany's bureaucracy was involved in the logistics of the mass murder, turning the country into what one Holocaust scholar has called "a genocidal nation
Although the word "holocaust" has been widely used since the 17th century to refer to the violent death of a large number of people (eg before World War II the word was used by Winston Churchill and others to describe the Armenian Genocide of World War I[9]), since the 1950s one particular use has become increasingly common, and if used without a qualifying context it now mainly refers to the Nazi Holocaust, and in that sense is usually treated as a proper noun with an initial capital. The word was adopted as a translation of "Shoah," which appeared for the first time in 1940 in Jerusalem in a booklet called Sho'at Yehudei Polin and was consolidated when the Jerusalem historian BenZion Dinur (Dinaburg) stated that the Jewish people were undergoing a "catastrophe".[10][11] By the 1950s, the term had come in the USA to refer to the genocide of the European Jews.[8]

The Nazi euphemism for the extermination of the Jews during the Nazi period was Endlösung der Judenfrage (the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question"). In both English and German, "Final Solution" is used as an alternative to the Holocaust.[12]

The word "Holocaust" is also used in a wider sense to describe other actions of the Nazi regime. These include around half a million Roma and Sinti, the deaths of several million Soviet prisoners of war, along with slave laborers, gay men, Jehovah's Witnesses, the disabled, and political opponents. The use of the word in this wider sense is objected to by many Jewish organizations, particularly those established to commemorate the Jewish Holocaust. Jewish organizations say that the word in its application to the Nazi genocide was originally coined to describe the extermination of the Jews, and that the Jewish Holocaust was a crime on such a scale, and of such specificity, as the culmination of the long history of European antisemitism, that it should not be subsumed into a general category with other crimes of the Nazis.

Even more contested is the extension of the word to describe events that have no connection with World War II. The terms "Rwandan Holocaust" and "Cambodian Holocaust" are used to refer to the Rwanda genocide of 1994 and the mass killings of the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia respectively, and "African Holocaust" is used to describe the slave trade and the colonization of Africa, also known as the Maafa

Originally Posted by SamIam

I am amazed how much hostility there is towards Jews even today. It just makes me so mad that something that so obviously happened is being said as not happening. I guess that is right up there with Slavery was a good thing. Ugh I just get irritated with ignorant people.

myes, Judaism is and always will be an isolated and mysterious community. You wont marry a traditional jew for instance. Mix that up with jealousy (they have key positions in science and politics), xenophobia and mass-hysteria and you'll have a perfect recipe for a genocide. Fact is that negationism isnt that popular. Probably attentionseekers or old relics from the collaborate past.


About slavery, you cant decide, as somebody from the 21th century, whether that's 'good' or 'bad'. Back in the 17th century, nobody gave a damn about slavery. Slavery was as normal as biscuits with your tea. Slaves were expensive, they had to be strong enough to work etc., so they lived a moderately good life. Many of them slaves were sold by their own tribe in exchange for (often fake) jewelry. Trouble started when slavery became forbidden and they had to pay for their food... . I know it sounds weird to our liberal standards now, but 'every era has it's own morals'.
its wrong to see slavery as a holocaust. it was business, not hate.

Originally Posted by jjaelovesenglish

I went to college with some exchange students from Bavaria and Germany and while they were growing up, this history of the holocaust was swept under the carpet partly to have some sense of patriotic pride rather than shame for their youth.

they heard enough about that, believe me.

You know when someone says something such as this I don't give them the time of day. I truly believe that the people that feel that this never happened are ashamed to admit that this happened. At least that is what I try to tell myself. I do know one person that believes it never happened and refuses to hear otherwise.

Another thing I find extraordinary is that even some Germans refused to believe that the Holocaust happened partly in their country. When the pictures of Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Treblinka, Sobibor & other camps were shown they said it was a hoax by the Allies . But seeing those terrible scenes on various programs and hearing the stories of the soldiers who liberated the camps always makes me feel humble indeed. It reduced many of the soldiers to tears as they couldn't do anything to help a lot of the victims as it was far too late. They had been literally abandoned by their former oppressors and left for dead ...

It is hard to believe that the people of Germany failed to notice this going on under their noses? Is it that they just didn't want to know. The main thing today is that it is taught in school in many countries so that it will never be sold as a non event..