What If - Version 1.1

[Dave]

I saw something from BBC4 last night called "Mortgaged To The Yanks", all about the loan that Britain received from the US in 1945. The same loan that was well reported at the end of last year when the we had just finished paying it off.

After the War Britain sent an economist called Keynes over to the US who was confident that he could get the Americans to deliver this money as a gift. The way he saw it it was obvious on moral grounds that the money should be a gift and not a loan. His reasoning was that if Britain had not made the stand against fascism that it had, then the whole world would be plunged into "A new dark age" ....along the same lines as Churchill predicted in his famous speech. Therefore, the reasoning goes, America and the rest of the world should be grateful for what we did, and 5 million dollars would do very nicely thank you as part of a debt of gratitude. The fact was that Britain stood alone against fascism for two years before Pearl Harbour and America joining the fight. This massive effort left Britain completely broke, bombed back into the stone age, and with no money to rebuild its economy...

So, what if Britain had not made this stand ? Would the whole world have been taken over eventually by the Third Reich, or by Stalin's murderous brand of communism ? Did Britain save the whole world from a new dark age and receive scant recognition and no real thanks at all from anyone ??



....I think the answer to all three questions is "yes".

[Dave]

Here's the relevant bit of Churchill's speech:


"Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization."...
"If we can stand up to (Hitler), all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit Uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world ... including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age . . ."... "Let us therefore," Churchill concluded, "brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, (people) will still say: 'This was their finest hour.'"

[Jim]

I know one thing Dave, at the time the USA was standing back and watching with itchy feet Britain was as you mention "Broke" Even without Pearl Harbour the USA would at sometime entered the War, they were to pigheaded not to have. I once read that had the Germans managed to persuade Britain to join them (or if Britain had no choice but to have allied with them) then the Uk as of now was to have been used as a breading ground for his Aryan race. Such a thought eh.. Her Dave!!

[Dave]

Herr Dave ! LOL, Perish the thought !.... Although there is something I like about the idea of a country whose people are preoccupied with doing nothing but breeding..... Hell yeah you can put me out to stud anytime ! "Make love not war" that's my new motto !

Seriously though reading this back I guess deep down I am proud to be British. But perhaps the last great thing we did as a nation to be proud of was stand up to Hitler and his cronies, it's been downhill since then in a lot of ways....

[Jim]

Yup i agree, British and very much proud of it.. .

Its still hard to believe (If you actually sit back and think about it) such a small Island can take on the might of a Country the size of Germany, who was very much alone for such a long time and come out the Victors. I think it says so much being an Island.

[Cpl Smyth]

No matter what you think about who did what in ww2 the Americans think they won it on there own.

[Cpl Smyth]

Sorry forgot to add, Amen.

[Dave]

No matter what you think about who did what in ww2 the Americans think they won it on there own.

LOL but it's not their fault Smythy lad. They just have the most almighty propoganda machine the world has ever seen - Hollywood.